Comments on: Let’s make 2008 the year of embracing the server side with Ajax http://www.wait-till-i.com/2007/12/30/lets-make-2008-the-year-of-embracing-the-server-side-with-ajax/ Chris Heilmann - Accessibilty, Web Development and Pragmatism - can talk, will travel Sun, 06 Jul 2008 19:55:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: bugrain http://www.wait-till-i.com/2007/12/30/lets-make-2008-the-year-of-embracing-the-server-side-with-ajax/#comment-6899 bugrain Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:38:39 +0000 http://www.wait-till-i.com/2007/12/30/lets-make-2008-the-year-of-embracing-the-server-side-with-ajax/#comment-6899 Interesting that the Technorati tags only contain one backend language - PHP. Is it because there are many more variations in environments server side that tutorial and example authors are reluctant to come up with anything based on any one technology for fear of losing an audience? Not that I don't agree with the sentiments, I'm in the lucky (some would say) position of being the client and server developer both professionally and for fun - one thing that does give is the ability to more easily decide the best (not the correct, sometimes) place to "do stuff", there's certtainly fewer meetings and less red tape ;) Interesting that the Technorati tags only contain one backend language - PHP. Is it because there are many more variations in environments server side that tutorial and example authors are reluctant to come up with anything based on any one technology for fear of losing an audience?

Not that I don’t agree with the sentiments, I’m in the lucky (some would say) position of being the client and server developer both professionally and for fun - one thing that does give is the ability to more easily decide the best (not the correct, sometimes) place to “do stuff”, there’s certtainly fewer meetings and less red tape ;)

]]> By: Doug http://www.wait-till-i.com/2007/12/30/lets-make-2008-the-year-of-embracing-the-server-side-with-ajax/#comment-6868 Doug Wed, 09 Jan 2008 14:19:07 +0000 http://www.wait-till-i.com/2007/12/30/lets-make-2008-the-year-of-embracing-the-server-side-with-ajax/#comment-6868 Glad to hear it. As a beginner trying to learn this stuff, I'm amazed at how MANY client-side scripting tutorials, libraries, etc. there are on the web (a lot of it contradictory or <a href="http://www.wait-till-i.com/2007/12/19/but-this-is-only-for-beginners-it-doesn%e2%80%99t-have-to-be-that-detailed%e2%80%a6/" rel="nofollow">over-simplified</a>) and how little server-side code there is to find. I'm finding the server-side stuff to be much trickier, especially when trying to provide both JS and non-JS capable code (as <a href="#comment-6832" rel="nofollow">Isaac Z. Schlueter discussed above</a>). Glad to hear it. As a beginner trying to learn this stuff, I’m amazed at how MANY client-side scripting tutorials, libraries, etc. there are on the web (a lot of it contradictory or over-simplified) and how little server-side code there is to find.

I’m finding the server-side stuff to be much trickier, especially when trying to provide both JS and non-JS capable code (as Isaac Z. Schlueter discussed above).

]]> By: Robert Nyman http://www.wait-till-i.com/2007/12/30/lets-make-2008-the-year-of-embracing-the-server-side-with-ajax/#comment-6852 Robert Nyman Fri, 04 Jan 2008 19:17:44 +0000 http://www.wait-till-i.com/2007/12/30/lets-make-2008-the-year-of-embracing-the-server-side-with-ajax/#comment-6852 Absolutely, the client side is the last place you want to do any transformation. Absolutely, the client side is the last place you want to do any transformation.

]]> By: Isaac Z. Schlueter http://www.wait-till-i.com/2007/12/30/lets-make-2008-the-year-of-embracing-the-server-side-with-ajax/#comment-6832 Isaac Z. Schlueter Wed, 02 Jan 2008 21:24:05 +0000 http://www.wait-till-i.com/2007/12/30/lets-make-2008-the-year-of-embracing-the-server-side-with-ajax/#comment-6832 Yes, yes, yes! A hundred times, yes. This last quarter, I've had the luxury to work on a project where I got to actually campaign for (and make a strong business case for) 100% functionality support for non-javascript users. (Of course, it'll be slower without javascript, a bit less slick and sexy, and generally not quite as cool. But everything will work, and will work about the same, but with more page loading.) We've built each feature first assuming that there will be absolutely zero javascript involved. It must work and look right and function *before* writing a line of script. Then expose only the bits of the API that you'll need so that you can hit them as a web service. Last, wire up a bit of script to hit the API and move the DOM around. In the end, the DHTML bit turns out to be the easiest part (with the YUI connection lib, it's damn near trivial sometimes.) The tricky thing has been avoiding duplicated code, another zero-exceptions mandate we've accepted. Wannabes and inexperienced developers write a lot of code because they want to show how clever they are and how much they can do. A good developer writes as little code as possible, because he knows that his goal is a product that works, and that each line of code is a necessary evil. Don't be flashy! If it can be hidden on the server, do it there! Yes, yes, yes! A hundred times, yes.

This last quarter, I’ve had the luxury to work on a project where I got to actually campaign for (and make a strong business case for) 100% functionality support for non-javascript users. (Of course, it’ll be slower without javascript, a bit less slick and sexy, and generally not quite as cool. But everything will work, and will work about the same, but with more page loading.)

We’ve built each feature first assuming that there will be absolutely zero javascript involved. It must work and look right and function before writing a line of script. Then expose only the bits of the API that you’ll need so that you can hit them as a web service. Last, wire up a bit of script to hit the API and move the DOM around. In the end, the DHTML bit turns out to be the easiest part (with the YUI connection lib, it’s damn near trivial sometimes.) The tricky thing has been avoiding duplicated code, another zero-exceptions mandate we’ve accepted.

Wannabes and inexperienced developers write a lot of code because they want to show how clever they are and how much they can do. A good developer writes as little code as possible, because he knows that his goal is a product that works, and that each line of code is a necessary evil. Don’t be flashy! If it can be hidden on the server, do it there!

]]> By: Gareth http://www.wait-till-i.com/2007/12/30/lets-make-2008-the-year-of-embracing-the-server-side-with-ajax/#comment-6827 Gareth Mon, 31 Dec 2007 21:57:56 +0000 http://www.wait-till-i.com/2007/12/30/lets-make-2008-the-year-of-embracing-the-server-side-with-ajax/#comment-6827 @Jonathan That's also the reason that conference organisers I've spoken to give for not including more back end bits and pieces in your average conference programme, even with two tracks. I actually think their are a number of areas which are generic enough, or interesting enough, to warrant some attention; messaging systems, Erlang, RESTful design principles, deployment, scaling and caching to name but a few. Or maybe that's just me? @Jonathan That’s also the reason that conference organisers I’ve spoken to give for not including more back end bits and pieces in your average conference programme, even with two tracks. I actually think their are a number of areas which are generic enough, or interesting enough, to warrant some attention; messaging systems, Erlang, RESTful design principles, deployment, scaling and caching to name but a few. Or maybe that’s just me?

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